BBRoundtable

I haven't seen the anime at all, actually. It's one of the ones I was thinking about checking out during this otherwise craptacular winter season.

I get the feeling that a lot of Takahashi's manga are too similar to each other, especially with some of the major character archetypes.

That's fairly true of Ranma and Maison Ikkoku, but then you look at Mermaid's Scar which, while not my favourite anime by any means, is at least very different. IDK one way or another about Inu Yasha, I couldn't tolerate it long enough to find out.

Yeah, I can see that. The library had copies of the manga, and the first volume was more than enough for me to know I had no interest.

Tonikaku, random thought: I was trying to come up with a list last night of the top 10 best anime I've ever seen, in no particular order. I hadn't re-compiled that list in a while, and was wondering what I'd use if I were to give someone who'd never seen any anime before a list of ten shows to watch. Basically, if you watch nothing else, at least watch these. Here's what I came up with:

Rurouni Kenshin: Reminiscence
Mononoke Hime
Jungle wa Itsumo Hare Nochi Guu (and Guu Deluxe)
Last Exile
Black Lagoon (and Second Barrage)
Hajime no Ippo (and New Challenger)
Seirei no Moribito
Nodame Cantabile
Fullmetal Alchemist (either version; they both have their merits)
Clannad (and After Story)

All of those either:
A) Made me cry, which takes a lot (see: Kenshin, After Story)
B) Literally left me awestruck (see: Mononoke Hime, Last Exile)
C) Made me laugh so hard that I practically hurt myself (see: Jungle Guu, Nodame)
or
D) Are just plain fookin' awesome (see: Black Lagoon, FMA)

I couldn't find anyplace to stick Twelve Kingdoms or Eureka Seven in there, even though I really wanted to, so I guess they get an honorable mention. The same kinda goes for Gundam 08th MS Team, the only Gundam series I've seen where not only are the people are the main characters, not the giant mechs, but the characters have real depth, too. I didn't include things based upon their value as classics or as representations of a particular genre, hence the lack of shows like Slayers or Bebop in there (besides, half of Bebop is random randomness, anyway ).

So, what's your list?

Seen these:


Rurouni Kenshin: Reminiscence - Something that's always been in the back of my mind to check out, but I never have.
Mononoke Hime - Good, but probably wouldn't top-10 it. Definitely the best out of Miyazaki's work though.
Jungle wa Itsumo Hare Nochi Guu (and Guu Deluxe) - I will have to look up what this even is.
Last Exile - And this.
Black Lagoon (and Second Barrage) - Plain fookin' awesome indeed.
Hajime no Ippo (and New Challenger) - I'm pretty sure that regardless of how good a boxing anime was, I couldn't hold interest.
Seirei no Moribito - Epic, in the way epic used to mean. A grant adventure in a speculative fiction world.
Nodame Cantabile - Hadn't really thought about it, but I've been looking for things to check out. I'll add this to my list.
Fullmetal Alchemist (either version; they both have their merits) - See comments above lol
Clannad (and After Story) - It'd be a close call for me between this and the Kanon remake. I'd probably pick this though.

As for making my own list, that's something I'll have to think about, after I look back over everything I've actually seen.

where the F is Cowboy Bebop?

GaimeGuy wrote:where the F is Cowboy Bebop?

J00 can has to read post moar carefully, 5p00n3j. I said it wasn't in there primarily because most of the show is random randomness, and only about half a dozen episodes are actually The Best Thing Evar. If the entire show were on the level of Ballad of Fallen Angels or Mushroom Samba, for example, it'd be in my list.

Anyvay, I know that certain genres won't hold certain people's interest as well as they'll hold others', so obviously, the list will vary a good deal from person to person. I still say FMA is really good, though, even in spite of the angst.

As for the other shows you haven't seen, here's an extremely brief description (aside from Ippo, which I know you won't watch either way):

Kenshin: Reminiscence - Much darker, bloodier and sadder than the Kenshin TV anime, but also much more dramatic and touching. The animation style is different (and better), too. Explains Kenshin's childhood and how he got the scar on his face.

Jungle Guu - About as random as Excel Saga, only without relying as heavily upon parodies of other stuff for its humor. Takes place (logically enough) in a jungle full of weird stuff. In a few words: trippy, manic and bizarrely hilarious. Probably not as hilarious if you don't have a random sense of humor like me.

Last Exile - Highly excellent, kinda retro-style sci-fi with very human characters, great animation and world design, and an interesting story. Involves a lot of planes and airships and whatnot. The ending is wonderful.

Nodame - Love comedy that takes place in a music college in Japan. Quirky, funny and likeable characters, and it takes the classical music element of the story very seriously, which lends the show personality and style.

I'm assuming I should watch Kenshin TV first then.

Semi-complete list of everything I've seen, with the disclaimer that I probably missed a lot of stuff. http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Nakor

So after I finished my top 10 I realized I had actually created a top 11 and didn't really want to remove any of them. In the end, I had to make a decision, and trimmed the list to this:

My 10, in no real order:

Slayers Next (and original and Try)
Gunslinger Girl
Black Lagoon
Nanoha A's (and original and StrikerS)
Azumanga Daioh
Excel Saga
Wolf and Spice
Whisper of the Heart
Shura no Toki
Kanon (2006)

Personally, I just can't leave Slayers off the list. Slapstick or no, it's hilarious, it's epic (especially Next), and you hardly have to be an anime fan to like it.

Gunslinger Girl may not make anyone cry, but it's possibly one of the most touching anime out there; it has impeccable quality, amazing characters, and really makes you think. And it doesn't have a second season. NO IT DOESN'T.

Black Lagoon, obvious reasons.

Nanoha A's is in there because, honestly, who doesn't love a great action show once in a while, and A's is the greatest action anime I've seen to date.

Azumanga Daioh similarly is the best the slice of life genre has to offer. Some would argue Lucky Star here, but I loved the Azu characters, plus it's more accessible to folk who've never watched anime before.

Excel Saga may be about as looney as it gets, but it's not the kind of looney you have to be an anime fan to love. Who wouldn't love Excel? As long as she stays on the far side of the screen of course.

Wolf & Spice would be the hardest on the list to introduce to a new watcher, but it doesn't take that long for Horo to grow on you. An excellent character-driven anime with an epic story.

Whisper of the Heart: In my not-so-humble opinion, this work by Miyazaki's studio is better than what Miyazaki himself puts out. It's a slower movie, no real action, not what you'd call an epic, but is a wonderful story - perhaps because, and not in spite, of that.

Shura no Toki is a sort of alternate version of feudal Japanese history. While the focus of the story is the unarmed attack style of Mutsu Enmei-Ryuu, the anime plays this through some important historical events later on. It's well executed, and makes for an excellent story. (In a sense, this might be the 'Kenshin' of my list.)

Kanon (2006) is my replacement for Clannad. The lows were lower, the highs were higher, the art was maybe just a hair better, and even the humour was just a touch better. If Clannad was a masterpiece - and that's what I rated it - then Kanon is a grand masterpiece.

Honourable Mention:

Seirei no Moribito: 11th place on the top 10 list. I'll be honest, I wanted to put Utawarerumono in here somewhere, but it's not really the epic story this was, and the ending totally ruined it.

Clannad: Edged out by Kanon, as above.

Pumpkin Scissors: Great cast, great story, great action, worth anyone's time to watch.

And nao, I shall do the same response thingy that you did before. Weeeee. The ones I've seen are in bold.

Slayers Next (and original and Try) - Never did get around to seeing Try yet. I probably should have given Next an honorable mention, since it almost made it on my list. The problem is that the original series' story is a little bit fractured at times, and you can't very well watch Next without watching the original first.

Gunslinger Girl - I wonder if I'm the only one who thought this was a little TOO depressing, even if that's at least partially the show's intent. I enjoyed it, but not THAT much. You said it makes you think, but about what? I tend to go for overt feeling in anime more than deep thinking, so if the value lies too deep beneath the surface, I won't even get it. Also, I can't fully appreciate the attention paid to accuracy of firearms, because I know almost nothing about them in the first place.

Black Lagoon - I want my 3rd season, dangit.

Nanoha A's (and original and StrikerS) - Kinda has the same problem as Slayers does for me. The original season was just OK, because it had a bit too much "monster of the day" in it at the beginning. A's was great, but it doesn't make sense unless you've seen the first season. Then StrikerS took a step backwards by not having that great of a villain in it and being dragged out for a bit too long; 13 eps would have been enough, like the other two seasons. If all three were on the level of A's, it mighta made my list.

Azumanga Daioh - I love the 4-koma-based shows, but for some reason, none of them strike me as The Best Thing Evar, not even highly excellent ones like Azumanga and Lucky Star. Dunno why (and I liked Lucky Star better, anyway). I notice you included it as a representation of the slice-of-life genre, but I deliberately didn't try to cover all my the genres. Some of them just don't have as epicly awesome of entries as others.

Excel Saga - Shoulda given this an honorable mention, too. It's essentially on par with Jungle Guu for me, though I honestly can't remember as much of the show as I'd like. It's been too long (about seven years). If I could remember more of it, it might take Jungle Guu's spot in my list, or else displace a different show.

Wolf and Spice - Hmm... dunno why I didn't include this. It's only about 0.0001 points behind the stuff I did list... definitely gets yet another honorable mention. I have way too many of those now.

Whisper of the Heart - Never seen it, no particular reason why not. No idea what it's about, either.

Shura no Toki - Ah, this was a good show. Yakumo is a great character. The first two story arcs were better than the third one, though, which kinda keeps me from calling this an all-time great.

Kanon (2006) - No excuse for not having seen this yet. I'll have to buy it on DVD someday, since it's pretty much impossible to find it subbed by now. El blargfa.

Already covered Seirei and Clannad, and Pumpkin Scissors didn't explain enough to me in the anime for me to be able to rate it that highly. If they'd continue the blasted thing (which I wish they would), I have no doubt it'd bring the awesome.

Also, I can't fully appreciate the attention paid to accuracy of firearms, because I know almost nothing about them in the first place.

Neither can I, but the attention to detail didn't stop there, when you consider the setting. There are a lot of questions you could name from it, but among them perhaps are "Is artificial happiness okay?" Children who would otherwise be dead or severely crippled coded to be happy with their new lives; would they be better off as they were or perhaps dead?

I agree with the problem Nanoha A's has of having to watch the first series first, but I don't think that can honestly detract from just how plain awesome A's was. And with the movie coming out retelling the first story, that argument may be solved completely.

I disagree on the Slayers bit though. You can actually easily watch Next without having watched the original, and have very little catch-up to do. You could not, however, fully understand Try without having first seen Next. Besides, while the original series was not as good as Next, it was still a great story (or perhaps, two great but separate ones).

If they'd continue the blasted thing (which I wish they would), I have no doubt it'd bring the awesome.

Agreed. Ended just as it was getting to its most epic. Edit: Volume 6 is apparently due out in Feb of 2010 in North America, though the official Del Rey site doesn't list it anywhere (and they have other series' future releases listed further in advance than that). Edit Edit: Right Stuf has it listed for Oct 2010, Anime Castle has the Feb 2010 date.

Kanon (2006) - No excuse for not having seen this yet. I'll have to buy it on DVD someday, since it's pretty much impossible to find it subbed by now. El blargfa.

Indeed. Similar for me and Air. Supposed to be right up there with Kanon and Clannad from what I hear, but I never got around to watching it. I do have, somewhere, a DVD or two with all of Kanon on it.

Shura: Yeah, I loved Yakumo too.

Azu vs LS: I liked the characters in Azu more, and didn't rely on references it'd take an otaku to understand at all, which makes it a better choice for newbies. Both had their cliché characterizations, but I felt that LS had that a bit moreso than Azu.

And all that said, my new mission of boredom (after buggering off to the library for a bit, and then picking up a package at the post office) shall be to comprise a top X (probably 5) list of 2009 anime.

Is artificial happiness OK? Why not? Happiness is happiness, and living is nearly always better than being dead (outside of being in a braindead state, anyway). Unlike in anime, you can't accomplish anything once you're dead (see: Yu Yu Hakusho, etc. ). See what I mean? I end up answering questions like this fairly succinctly, because they never really gnaw at me in the first place.

Yeah, I suppose you're right about not absolutely having to watch the original Slayers to understand Next. It does still help, though, since they make references here and there to Shabranigdo in Next, and you won't know anything about him if you didn't watch the first show.

That's also true about the new Nanoha movie making it easier to get to A's without wading through the first show. I probably still wouldn't put A's in my top 10 either way, though (it's somewhere in the top 20 or 25, for certain). As hilarious as the "YOU GONNA GET BEFRIENDED" macro you stuck up here one time was, in the actual show, it gets a tiny bit old for me. Less talking, more gigantic magic bolts and funky German.

Didn't you say at some point that the Pumpkin Scissors anime ended where it did because they were running out of source material? Think there's any chance they'll make more of the anime after more of the manga has come out?

Air has a different type of ending than Clannad does (no idea about Kanon), but it was really good, yeah. The depth of feeling and snarky, amusing male lead are both there in classic Key style. I give the thing a 9/10, personally (the sum of both seasons of Clannad gets a 9.5/10, btw).

Yakumo vs. Musashi pretty well qualifies as The Best Thing Evar. That story arc and duel are classics.

I think the reason I like Lucky Star a bit more than Azu is precisely BECAUSE it has all the anime and game references in it. For the layman, sure, Azu would be easier to follow. Both of them are still slice-of-life shows, though, which never have quite the same impact on you as something with a grander story or more comic insanity or action or whatever. Well, aside from penguin Chiyo, anyway. Penguin Chiyo eats j00r brains with cuteness.

Top five shows of 2009? Hmm... I'll have to come back to that one. I can't even remember what I watched earlier this year.

since they make references here and there to Shabranigdo in Next, and you won't know anything about him if you didn't watch the first show.

Honestly, what's there to know? He's a giant evil demon thing bent on destroying the world. There really isn't much more to know about him.

Less talking, more gigantic magic bolts and funky German.

That's what A's was to the rest of the series lol. They didn't even give Nanoha and Fate time to reunite before starting the fighting.

Didn't you say at some point that the Pumpkin Scissors anime ended where it did because they were running out of source material? Think there's any chance they'll make more of the anime after more of the manga has come out?

I probably did, because it would have been right at the time. I would be shocked if they didn't make more when the material is there, but I haven't seen anything in writing that there will be.

Top five shows of 2009? Hmm... I'll have to come back to that one. I can't even remember what I watched earlier this year.

I share this problem. This may help. Note that they often list '08 anime that ran into '09.

And now for the...

2009 Anime Awards (Dun dun dun...)

Let's start off with the award for:



Biggest LOLWUT Anime
Biggest Rip-Off of Sailor Moon
Most Blatant Fanservice
Underdog Anime of the Year
And now, my:

Top 5 Anime of 2009

Well, I can't very well disagree with you over your Biggest Lolwut and Most Blatant Fanservice choices. Those were really obvious ones. I never watched Umi Monogatari, so I'll have to take your word on that one. Never seen Taisho Yakyuu Musume, either, but I've kinda been meaning to for a while now, since it looks amusing. I'll have to get around to it at some point.

All right, so here are some of my anime awards from 2009:

Biggest Cute Overload

Chi`s Sweet Home: Atarashii Ouchi - The sequel to Chi's Sweet Home, which involves the cute adventures of a ridiculously cute kitten doing a variety of random things in a mind-bogglingly cute fashion. This season adds new animal characters and people to the story, many of which also commence the cute. Bizarrely entertaining in spite of being a kids' show. Actually manages to out-cute K-ON, believe it or not.

Best Non-Engrish English

Higashi no Eden - I'm almost positive they hired some Americans to do bit part voices for this show, because the quality of the English spoken when the characters are in the US is outstanding. Among other things, this one black cop lady tells the character Akira "I need to see your Johnny," because Akira was caught on camera running around buck nekkid by the White House (yes, there's a reason for this) and she wants to try and ID him by that. Amazingly enough, the exchange is funny for the content, probably due to its lack of Engrish to distract you from said content. The same applies for all the other English dialogue in the show.

Snarkiest Dialogue

Bakemonogatari - The de facto female lead, Hitagi, probably rips the main character, Koyomi, a new one about twenty different times in the span of only twelve episodes, and generally in very creative fashion. Yes, it's part of the whole tsundere thing, but Nisioisin is a genius at snarky, and writes a WAY the hell better tsundere character than pretty much every other mangaka or scriptwriter I've ever seen. Just for good measure, Koyomi also gets verbally whacked upside the head by most of the show's other characters, too, which is no less amusing.

Biggest Freakin' Hardcore Holy Crap Moment

Kakouton, Souten Kouro - Dude gets shot in the eye with an arrow during a battle, so what does he do? He pulls the arrow out of his face with his eyeball on it, yells maniacally, and then EATS THE FOOKING THING. Yes, he eats his own eyeball in the midst of battle. That... is freakin' hardcore. Also hilarious and awesome.

I'll deal with the top five later. Too lazy to think hard about it right now.

Never watched any of Bakemonogatari, though I'm told I ought to have. Never even heard of Kakouton.

Yeah, it's definitely worth watching Bakemonogatari. It consists mostly of dialogue, but the dialogue and character interactions are so good that it doesn't matter how much of it there is. Highly recommended.

Kakouton is a character from the traditional Three Kingdoms story (Xiahou Dun in the original Chinese). Souten Kouro is the show in this case, so I supposed I should have put the show name before the character name.